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Old 04-17-2010, 01:12 PM   #21
WhateverUSMC
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The story is just that; a story. There is no attempt to glorify what actually happens in real life combat situations (of which I've repeatedly been in, which is why I am now in Canada).

What I'm trying to say is this; your points are valid, and I agree with them; however, this is simply a story.

Also; they're only words. Words are innocent; as George Carlin said, it's the context behind them that makes them good or bad. It's the people who assign negative connotations to them that you need to be concerned with; in the case of this video, the US government at the time. Your beef should be with them, not with a guy who writes stupid shit on a forum.
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhateverUSMC View Post
The story is just that; a story. There is no attempt to glorify what actually happens in real life combat situations (of which I've repeatedly been in, which is why I am now in Canada).

What I'm trying to say is this; your points are valid, and I agree with them; however, this is simply a story.

Also; they're only words. Words are innocent; as George Carlin said, it's the context behind them that makes them good or bad. It's the people who assign negative connotations to them that you need to be concerned with; in the case of this video, the US government at the time. Your beef should be with them, not with a guy who writes stupid shit on a forum.
You can be sure I have no beef with you, first of all.
(My beefs are all in the fridge, whenever I remember to go to market!)

I don't say you wrote shit. As I said, my problems are with use of words. Not with you, any particular country or administration (Btw and if you want me to charge someone, Bush' one is, to me, one of the worse administrations in recent History. Sad to hear you served in the army under that administration, I suppose it didn't make you happy at all. If you don't think that way, no problem neither. Up to you.)

I just try to study and read about those matters (linguistics, politics, socio, psycho, International Relationships, etc). And maybe I think that giving these points of view in a general basis to population could change how manipulation makes us to do things we shouldn't do if we would have the whole picture. Maybe I'm just an innocent fool!

Anyway, and being a pacifist in mind (playing RO, I know; we all have our contradictions!), I don't charge against military forces, some of my relatives work in my country's army forces. I just try to point the use of language and how economical power use it in a "right political manner" to gain advantages, despite lifes losses. I thought that your thread could give me the chance to pass the idea between gamers. I would like to have that on mind some years ago. Maybe I didn't do some other stupid things!

And to me it doesn't matter if that use of language appears in a press release from US (or Spanish, I don't care) government or in an online game forum, keeping the language is keeping the ideas somehow.

Anyway I wish you the best and my apologies if you felt hurted because of my words. I still think that my remarks are positive and useful and that you can write far better than that.

Good weekend to everyone.
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:33 PM   #23
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Again, it's just a story, not an attempt to rationalize real life government actions.

For further information on my positions on this subject, I invite you to read this thread;

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...highlight=iraq

Much further into this I won't go, because I have explained it already to any number of TV shows, newspapers, magazines, and government officials, most of which can be Googled.

As far as 'writing better'; I have already explained, that is a gift I do not possess. I am in awe of anyone who can write stories, draw, play instruments, or do anything creative-wise. I wrote this in a format that allows what little skill I have with a keyboard to come through, hopefully with some degree of success. Sorry you did not enjoy the read, but there are plenty of other stories on here which you can read.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:14 PM   #24
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I actually liked the story; and everyone and their dog knows my position of the war, the government, the military, the dicks that fucked all of America, and the rednecks that voted for them.

Keep it up dude, and let me know if I can contribute in some way.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:25 PM   #25
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It's not against rednecks, countries, particular forum users, or Irak policies...

...but use of language as the main "weapon" we can use. But using it with those expressions makes us part of the equation of those systems, governments, etc reproducing and expanding their system of thought.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchalain View Post
It's not against rednecks, countries, particular forum users, or Irak policies...

...but use of language as the main "weapon" we can use. But using it with those expressions makes us part of the equation of those systems, governments, etc reproducing and expanding their system of thought.
I apologize, I was in the military for 5 years and WhateverUSMC was in for like 6 or so (correct me if I'm wrong) this is a narrative is a native format for us, I understand what you're saying though, I just happen to disagree with it in this case.
Probably not something we should be teaching in elementary schools though.
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Old 04-17-2010, 05:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vythica View Post
I apologize, I was in the military for 5 years and WhateverUSMC was in for like 6 or so (correct me if I'm wrong) this is a narrative is a native format for us, I understand what you're saying though, I just happen to disagree with it in this case.
Probably not something we should be teaching in elementary schools though.
Hey! You don't have to apologize

Step by step getting closer to common grounds, that's all.

You're right about elementary school, hard lesson... :/

That experience is gold for the world even if it's heavy to carry for the individual. Keep it up.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchalain View Post
But using it with those expressions makes us part of the equation of those systems, governments, etc reproducing and expanding their system of thought.
I don't see how me using their words means that I am a part of their equation.

The words have been in existance for a long time now; the misuse of them, the euphamisms OF them, are fairly recent.

Words are not the problem; it's the people who manipulate them to serve their needs that need to be first against the firing wall when the revolution comes.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:09 PM   #29
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Again it would take me time to develop. Feel free to ignore a too long post.


Humans are limited on their minds. We all have ideas on our minds but we use words, and symbols we link to them, to build reality and other ideas using "words".

At the same time words build up the world, limits it paradoxically too. We hardly can really innovate, so most of the time we "reproduce" patterns of thinking from the original vehicles: words.

Words and what's really behind, the symbol.
Words are just sounds. But what's important on the word is the "meaning". That meaning is behind of those sounds. A symbol that we all share in a language, giving us an approximate idea of what the "other" is talking about, and making possible "communication".

But words (or meanings and symbols behind them) does not work as mere correspondance with the object. They built up together cultural systems. Those cultural systems are different on humans with their taboos, main values, rituals, etc. Symbols behind words is what we use to build up those systems.

Some rough examples to develop a bit.
Occidental way of thinking.-
Our taboos: drugs, terrorism, sex... (it does not happen in every culture)
Our values: work, nuclear family, monogamy, money... (it does not happen in every culture)
Our rituals: Marriage, baptism, graduations (elementary, high, university), court trials, parliament or congress sessions... (it does not happen in every culture)

We spend our entire life learning just like that; with words, their meanings and symbols. We do it so often and spending so many time we don't even think how our mind is working and how those meanings are working on that process. We "just do it" as some kind of authomatism.

Problem is until we find a word (symbol) to innovate the whole system, we don't have the tools to create any cultural revolution. Let's focus on this a bit.

Fag.-
Some meanings but the main one, we all share it. Word mainly used in a very disrespectful way to insult somebody. So main "symbol" on this word is "insult" (verbal agression). Why does it insult us? What's the meaning? Male with homosexual tendences. Mmmmmmmm. Why is it related? Calling someone Male with homosexual tendences---->Agression?
The thing is that every male on our culture shares the symbolism that if someone doubts about your sexual preferences, is trying to hurt you at the highest level.
One day "Gay" appeared as a word. Why? Because we were trying to innovate our language because our values changed a bit telling us that it's unfair to use a group of persons to insult others. We feel we are causing unfair feelings to people for unfair reasons based on cultural lacks of our cultural system. But it's the same... Gay is too Male with homosexual preferences, the original point of this word is that we don't use it as an insult. That little detail changes the whole system. That little word ("Gay") is working as a cultural virus on our heads, changing meanings, values and the way we express on our everyday life, even in the most reactionary minds.

Terrorism.-
This word has changed its "cultural value" recently. Before was negative but neutral, almost technical word. Not too much feelings around it.
After 11-S-01, 11-M-04 and Bush administration this word is used on news as "evil" almost. Gender terrorism, school terrorism, they use it more and more. It's not casual an "Axe of the evil" was built on that moment from that named administration. I'm sure we all can feel that word "communism" lost its hate value when cold war was over, sure it's related to the new use of "terrorism". Just like "infidel" or "unbelieving" was in Middle Age. Now we think that it's not a reason to hate someone if the person believes or not on what we believe... But back then, that person was a very dangerous ennemy allied with devil. We invented a very beautiful word to pass that ignorance: The Renaissance. The cultural revolution arrived calling the previous system "Ancient Regime" and it changed a bit the world.

Of course I simplify, ignore, and don't explain properly huge loads of things, but just trying to communicate.

Sorry for the length of the text.

Last edited by marchalain; 04-17-2010 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:03 PM   #30
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I still see this disscussion as being off topic, since it is inconsistant with the original posts intention.
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